Open Records vs. Secretly Petitioning The Government: There’s a referendum on the ballot in Washington State about gay marriage. Groups fighting the referendum and/or interested in open records issues sought the names of the people who signed the petition to place the issue on the ballot. One side argued that these lists were usually not public (somewhat of a surprise to me– when I’ve been involved in petition fights, one aspect was the whole question was whether individuals who signed were qualified voters. How is that fight possible without release of the names? Apparently, that’s all water under the bridge– the referendum is going to be on the ballot, next month), and the other side argues that there is no public record law exception in Washington for names on a petition, which is an argument I’d make and expect to win under Mississippi’s open records law. As reported on SCOTUS blog and in the New York Times, the Ninth Circuit lifted the district court order on release of the names, and Justice Kennedy entered a stay until the U.S. Supreme Court decides to take the case. Justice Stevens would have denied the stay. Here’s the Supreme Court order. I’m just guessing– there is no 9th Circuit opinion, and I’ve not sought out a district court order– but assume that this case will turn on issues raised in NAACP v. Patterson, the Supreme Court case where it held that the effort by the State of Alabama to compel the NAACP to produce its membership lists violated associational freedoms. I don’t see that issue– involving a private association– as analogous to publically petitioning the government, but as I say I’m just guessing.
Those Delta Planters Just Don’t Approve Of The Rest of Us: I didn’t pay much attention to Morgan Freeman’s fund raising effort last week and somehow missed a sentence that Sid Salter caught: “Reform in Mississippi is hard because the base stock of this state is a mule-headed bunch of farmers,” Freeman told The Associated Press on Sunday. “Those farmers have ruled the roost for so long because this is an agricultural state.” Well, it looks like (white or black) Freeman has signed on to the view the folks who own the Delta have always had of the rest of the state.
Always reliable for dumb remarks about history: Glen Beck, of course. “We call them progressives now, but back in Samuel Adams’ day, they used to call them tyrants,” said Beck. “A little later, I think they were also called slave owners.” My wife, having read a long profile of Beck in Salon, thinks he fried his brain with all the drug use back in his morning-show-DJ-days. H/t Andrew Sullivan.
Oh boy, another special session: We just can’t get enough of those bad sausage makers in Jackson. Apparently, this one is going to be another economic development project in North Mississippi. Will it be a beef plant, or a car factory, or some other mirage? Since I’ve just learned the sausage quote I just linked is probably misattributed to Bismark, here’s a bonus couple of quotes (to go with “Politics is the art of the possible”) from him to make up for it: “With a gentleman I am always a gentleman and a half, and when I have to do with a pirate, I try to be a pirate and a half.”
Bernie Madoff, drug kingpin: So asks the New York Post in describing allegations about an amended complaint alleging massive cocaine use and office sex, all in a suit over the collapse of his Ponzi scheme.
Andrew Sullivan calling someone a nutjob? the irony.
Which coffee shop, NMC?
Sullivan didn’t call him a nutjob, I did.
Bardwell– the one on Pearl across from the Clarion Ledger building; went to do emails and some work after being in court this morning.
I had read that article in the CL re Morgan Freeman’s statements and had intended to comment about it here in an open thread when I had time. Coupled with Luckett’s previous racially divisive remarks that pretty much labeled as “racists” all Deltans who did not vote for Obama, Freeman’s recent similar racially divisive remarks on behalf of the Luckett campaign for governor leave little room for Luckett to plausibly contend that he was previously misquoted (the reporter, as I recall, stood by his/her story). Race (particularly the labeling of his opponents as racists) seems to be the emerging theme of the Luckett campaign. What could go wrong?
Apparently some folks have forgotten the first rule of holes. Oh my. Our next election for governor is likely going to be a mudslinging affair. It won’t be good for Mississippi, but it’ll be entertaining to watch from a safe distance. Get the popcorn ready.
I LOVE that coffee shop. Had not found it until recently on a trip there.
““We call them progressives now, but back in Samuel Adams’ day, they used to call them tyrants,” said Beck. “A little later, I think they were also called slave owners.” ”
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There may indeed be a little method to Beck’s “madness”. For instance, with respect to anyone who supports illegal immigration and knowingly hires such illegal labor for below minimum wages, I would have to say that you support and participate in the modern day version of slavery. Progressive? Hardly. And those who enable the modern day slaveholders by supporting the wink and a nod failure to enforce our immigration laws (ostensibly under the ruse of compassion) are hardly progressive or compassionate.
And those, under the claim of progressive thought, who think its ok for the government to take over private industry; stifle, punish and silence political dissent; take over matters involving our private lives from cradle to grave; etc. may indeed be tyrants.
Beck may have a legitimate point, whether his historical references are ironclad or not. And, I will add that he has been out in front of several legitimate news stories lately — primarily due to the mainstream media’s refusal to do their jobs when it comes to reporting anything negative toward our President or the democrats. It is at the point of glaring embarassment that Beck has ascended to such heights due to the media’s ever growing lack of independence–wouldn’t want to get on Obama’s enemies list or lose Gibbs’ seal of approval. Beck has become part of the crucial check and balance intended by the constitution in protecting a free and independent press. And he, in many respects, is a comedian —much like Jon Stewart. Don’t blame Beck for being Beck. He is just filling a large void in news/journalism right now. Blame those who created the void —they are primarily responsible for Beck’s high ratings.
AFOTL, if you think it’s the “progressives” who are hiring illegals, I’d invite you to go to the Beacon tomorrow at breakfast time, ask which table has some contractors are at, and sit down with them and ask them about Obama and socialized medicine. And if you think illegal immigrant labor shows up by a process kindred to slavery– and can’t go back whenever they choose– first, ask yourself how they are arriving here, and, second, check out how quickly folks go back if they find themselves subject to criminal charges.
The illegals are not brought here by progressives. It’s the economy. And we’ve never been able to “seal our borders” to them because there really isn’t a national desire to– just too convenient for business owners to have that labor pool available. We want our lawns mowed and our bricks laid and our hamburgers cooked cheaply and don’t want to think too much about how it happens.
I know a bunch of business owners who employ illegals, mostly in the construction industry one way or another. I’d warrant they largely voted for Republicans if they voted at all. Not one would be a progressive by any sense of the word.
You wrote that progressives are for stifling, punishing and silencing political dissent. What are you talking about? I’m a progressive. I know personally a lot of them, some successful in politics to one degree or another. They can be an argumentative bunch, but I do not know one single one who advocates anything that could be called “stifling political dissent.” In the history of this country, and this state, the stifling of political dissent has come from the conservative side. Look back at your own post about your parents and their refusal to join the Citizen Council. You count that a progressive group? The effort to shout down and label as traitors or coddlers of terrorists anyone who opposed what Bush did during his presidency would be another example.
After reading your comment I went back to Beck’s original comment, and thought– you’re defending that? slaveholders as progressives? Tyrants were the progressives of the era of the revolution? Well, all right. George III was a progressive. And I guess so was slaveholder John C. Calhoun.
What you are doing here is saying “progressive = bad” and ticking off a list of things you think are bad, and making that progressive, without regard to any fact in the world. And it’s just as incoherent as Beck’s remark.
http://rrracket.blogspot.com/2009/10/stretching-law.html
Honest Services Fraud takes a stretch.
NMC, neither party is clean on the illegal immigration issue. There are those in both parties who enable it and take advantage of it. But, the fact is that most democrats will not take a tough stand against it. The Republicans are split. I have consistently been appalled by the lack of enforcement of our laws in this regard, and even moreso by those who think it is “progressive” and compassionate to aid these illegals. For their own good, and ours, we need to have strict enforcement of our southern borders. These people are being lured here by our government policies and then taken advantage of — workers working for less than minimum wage — women being sold as sex slaves —- etc. It is the modern day slavery. I don’t hire them —never have. And I don’t do business with folks who I know or suspect are doing it. IF there was a hotline that I could use to turn these folks in, and such tips would be acted upon and taken seriously, I would use it. There’s not, and the government is not interested.
And if you don’t think the Obama administration’s actions have been to attempt to stifle and silence dissent, then you haven’t been paying attention.
I am not purporting to defend Beck’s use (or misuse) of historical facts —I thought I said something to that effect in my comment, but maybe it wasn’t clear. I don’t pay close enough attention to Beck to know if his historical facts are accurate or not. And I don’t have the time or inclination to do the research for fact checking. I’ll trust your opinion that they are not accurate. I am only defending him in the sense that I thank God that there are still a few folks out there in the news/entertainment world willing to publicly dissent against this current administration.
And I certainly was not defending slavery in any respect, shape or form. How you got that out of my comment is beyond me. Don’t “Rush” me bro. My point, which apparently was completely lost with you, was that Beck is pointing out that many who call themselves “progressives” today are acting like tyrants. With that, I agree. I don’t agree with his political history.
BTW, part of our lack of communication here may be with the definition of terms. As I understand Beck, he equates today’s so-called “progressives” to democrats, because that it what many of them are calling themselves these days, as opposed to the term “liberal”. To the extent you see a finite distinction, then therein may lie the problem with understanding Beck. Beck notes that the racist segregationists in his lifetime were “democrats”. Extrapolating backward into time into the plantation/slavery era, he thus surmises that they must have been “democrats” too. (Yes, I know that it is not that simple, and that he is wrong with his terms and political history —just trying to explain, to the extent that I can, where this guy is coming from).
AFOTL wrote:
“And if you don’t think the Obama administration’s actions have been to attempt to stifle and silence dissent, then you haven’t been paying attention.”
What are you talking about? Such as?
The attacks from the administration against anyone who dares to disagree with Obama and the democrats, starting with Shawn Hannity, then Rush Limbaugh, those who attended the tea parties, those who attended the town hall meetings, and most recently the entire Fox News Network. Labeling such dissenters as unpatriotic or un-American or worse. The attempt to silence Humana from communicating with its insureds with respect to proposed health care legislation. Etc. Etc. It is a creepy and disturbing trend with this administration. Very Nixonian.
An issue with strong enforcement of our immigration laws that hasn’t been discussed lately is our relationships with other Western Hemisphere States. We have a sketchy reputation for our dealings in Central and South America. By heavily enforcing the borders and renewed efforts at deportation we run the risk of further alienation of countries that don’t like us so much right now. Many of these countries rely on tranfer payments from their nationals working here as a significant part of their GDP. Any words of strong enforcement you here will be outweighed by the actions (or lack thereof) that are actually completed. We have grown to rely on cheap labor, the so called wage slaves that the 19th Century Anti-abolitionists spoke of so repetitively. We have also seen the decline of the middle class and the associated decline of our State. Redistribution of wealth has recently been made out to be a dirty concept. It’s not at all. The success of our Nation has always depended on redistribution of wealth. We all suffer when robber barons are annointed through unequal redistribution, even the robber barons eventually suffer from the poor trickle down results of voodoo supply side economics run amok. Helping grow or maintain the GDP of Latin America only helps us to maintain hemispheric ties, markets for export, and cheap imported commodities that are less regulated than those which are home grown. Nothings going to change it fuels the engines of American capitalism.
Here’s an immigration-related point (I hope) for you: until fairly recently, the state’s highways were de-littered (God we are a messy bunch) by prisoners, civic do-gooders, and an occasional MDOT roving patrol.
It appears, at least to me, that de-littering has been contracted out by the state. I can’t read the business name on the side of the de-littering trucks, but it isn’t MDOT. All … and I mean that in its broadest sense … the worker bees appear, as I speed by, to be Latinos. Maybe I’m in my racial profiling regime when I’m motoring, but I haven’t seen a plain ole Mississippian with any of the crews.
So what corporation has the state contract for delittering, and how carefully have the employees’ alien status have been vetted?
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PS. It’s comforting to read about Bernie Madoff office routines … at least he didn’t waste all that stolen loot.
“The success of our Nation has always depended on redistribution of wealth.” You got it, Mama. Do the oxyconservatives think poor people spend money with other poor people? The greatest beneficiaries of food stamps, for example, are the grocers (they are also where most food stamp fraud occurs, as well).
NMC, better call Beck a nutjob as often as possible. Beck has some messages upon which others will be seizing. By 2012 the messages will be incapable of being shot down, because the messengers will outnumber the shooters.
AFOTL says that an administration responding to political attacks somehow stifles dissent: “The attacks from the administration against anyone who dares to disagree with Obama and the democrats, starting with Shawn Hannity, then Rush Limbaugh, those who attended the tea parties, those who attended the town hall meetings, and most recently the entire Fox News Network. Labeling such dissenters as unpatriotic or un-American or worse.”
First, I’d like a quote from the administration saying that dissenters are unpatriotic or un-American. Second, why didn’t you complain about this sort of behavior during the Bush administration?
No administration– Republican or Democratic– is stifling dissent when it responds in a political way to political attacks. The accusations that one person or another was unpatriotic– or aiding the terrorists– were hurled at those that dissenting voices during the Bush administration.
I would like a quote where someone within the Obama administration calls a “dissenter” “unpatriotic” or “un-American.”
Yep. Trickle down works just fine so long as ot looks more like Niagra or Victoria Falls instead of Yosemite’s Bridal Veil Falls. Think globally, act locally.
In either case, DLM, it’s better to be the “trickler” than the “tricklee.” :)
afotl, you’re wrong. beck is simply an ignorant mouthpiece who is defending “white culture” from the obama administration. beck is a new media racist who is redistributing wealth into his pocket from fearful bigots. illegal immigration has nothing to do with this. fox news is building a media star, even pleasing katie couric with a sit down interview.
Ya know osa, I think it’s absolutely clear that there’s a good solid 27-3!% who would follow Beck’s nutjobbery to the ends of the earth, and I hope and pray that’s where the Republicans march, into long-term minority status.
RE: Becks increased ratings. Please note some of us are watching just to see his childish behavior and nothing more. After years of ignoring everyone the Reps have proven their no better. In every sentence he opposes the very things the republicans have done for years.